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Message board > Miscellaneous topics > Pilot 20 Wheel House Sun Roof

Message 21 of 21
Posted by member Simon Franklin on Friday 27 March 2015

I have just bought a Hardy 21 MS. If the sunroof on my boat is the same size then I would be interested, so please count me in. Many thanks Simon Franklin

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Message 20 of 21
Posted by member Hardy Editor on Monday 16 March 2015

Ahoy everyone, George Linder of Seaglaze Marine Windows (post 17 above) has asked if I would mind coordinating the numbers of HOC members interested in the Family Pilot Sunroof Hatch Scheme. I am happy to do this as our HOC Secretary is quite busy herself at the moment. So if you might be interested in the development and supply of one of these hatches yourself, please contact me at editor@hardy-owner.org.uk. We need to supply George with a rough idea of how many individuals might actually be interested in order to work out costs. This will hopefully be of benefit to everyone in the future as well, and keep costs to the minimum for each purchaser. At this stage it is purely a show of hands in order to ascertain a unit price. Many thanks to you all, Marie HOC Editor

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Message 19 of 21
Posted by member Hardy Editor on Saturday 14 March 2015

Ahoy Gerald, I've added you to the list and have your details at the ready - many thanks for your help. Hopefully, I will be able to get back to you very soon. All the best, Marie HOC

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Message 18 of 21
Posted by member Gerald Lewis on Friday 13 March 2015

Hi Marie, and thank you for the update. If you are looking for a show of hands in respect of prospect customers for roof hatches and sliding cockpit windows, please count me in for both. Being a south-coast owner, I expect that Liberty is located too far away from Seaglaze to be used as their guinea-pig boat (although I am happy to offer her if they are interested) - but if I can be of any assistance by checking measurements / trial fitting of templates etc, do let me know. If you or George Linder need to get in touch with me, I can be contacted via the e.mail address and telephone number held by the Membership Secretary. Kind regards, Gerald.

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Message 17 of 21
Posted by member Hardy Editor on Friday 13 March 2015

Ahoy again everyone, It has been a while since my last post, but I've been waiting for the chap from Seaglaze to get back to me. Attached below is the latest update as regards the production of a sunroof style hatch for the wheelhouse roof of Family Pilots (and others if needed). If we have an HOC member with a Family Pilot, who might be interested in one of these hatches and who lives in the Norfolk area and is willing to allow Seaglaze to visit and look at their boat, could you contact me please, at hardy.editor@ntlworld.com Also, Gerald (Lewis-post 25th Jan 2015) something here of interest to you as well concerning the side windows. All the best, Marie HOC Ed. Good Afternoon Marie, Hope you're well. Firstly, apologies for the delays in correspondence. Unfortunately the perfect storm of being busy, getting our Owners Association initiative up and running and absence form the office for various reasons has led to us falling a bit behind, but we're firmly on the catch up now!! To answer what I think are the main outstanding questions: Hatches 1) Can we offer as a supply only option? Absolutely, this is how we operate. We do not offer a fitting service. 2) Would this cause a warranty issue? No, as per the above. That said, our warranty covers manufacturing defect for 12 months from us despatching the goods. We do not / can not offer a warranty against poor fitting and always recommend those who are not certain of their abilities to contract a local boat yard. 3) Ordering on mass will be the best way of creating a significant saving. For instance, for production boat builders we often build / deliver in batches of 5 to gain an advantage. That said, we perhaps need someone to take the plunge and work with us to produce the first one - possibly with a built in discount for being the guinea pig! What sort of numbers - roughly - do you think may show an interest? Do you know of an amiable owner on the Norfolk Broads who may let us take a look? Sliding Window Very interested in this. Unbelievably common request on many 'smaller' boats where ventilation / ability to yell at the crew has not been taken into account. All we would need to know is the aperture size these windows sit in / level of interest and we can start looking at a ball-park price. Hope the above answers a few questions and look forward to working with your Association. Kind Regards, George George Linder Sales Manager Seaglaze Marine Windows Ltd.

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Message 16 of 21
Posted by member Marie O'Connell Hardy Editor on Tuesday 3 February 2015

Pilot 20 Wheelhouse Sun Roof continued – Seaglaze Ahoy everyone. Things are as usual taking a bit longer to organise than we would like, but I can tell you that Seaglaze can offer their new version of the sunroof as ‘supply only’ with an additional sheet of guidelines for the installer to follow. This will mean that once Seaglaze are in a position to get down to the nitty gritty of producing one of these new version hatches, (the finer points being discussed as we speak) HOC members should be able to obtain one of these sunroof fittings in the future without any problems. The installation of the fittings will be up to each individual to organise for themselves, either by approaching a boat yard near to them, or contacting Simon of JStar (who is one of our own HOC Technical Advisors and a boat builder) or indeed installing the hatch themselves. I will keep everyone posted as to what is happening next as regards developments of the hatch – so far so good and it is looking encouraging. My thanks to Seaglaze. Thanks for your patience. All the best, Marie HOC Editor

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Message 15 of 21
Posted by member simon papendick on Monday 26 January 2015

Hi Gerald While I was at Hardy's the pilot 20 wheelhouse roof was the same throughout its production run and so has far as I know it never changed. Regards Simon Papendick

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Message 14 of 21
Posted by member simon papendick on Monday 26 January 2015

Hi Gerald While I was at Hardy's the pilot 20 wheelhouse roof was the same throughout its production run and so has far as I know it never changed. Regards Simon Papendick

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Message 13 of 21
Posted by member Marie O'Connell Hardy Editor on Monday 26 January 2015

Ahoy Neil This is a very valid point and I myself may wind up doing it this way on my own 1984 Family Pilot. I think that the only addition to my Hardy that I have had help with because I didn't trust my own ability, was the installation of my heater. Otherwise, I am with you - most things you can do yourself and save a packet. For every owner that does their own fitting out there are those who prefer not to, so it does no harm to offer both. I will run this by Seaglaze. Many thanks to you and all the best, Marie HOC

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Message 12 of 21
Posted by member Gerald Lewis on Sunday 25 January 2015

Hi Marie, and thank you for your efforts in contacting Seaglaze. If they are able to design and cost a hatch / sun-roof that would fit the standard opening on a Pilot, I would definitely be interested although, like Neil, my ideal preference would be for a 'supply only' version that I could fit myself. It would be helpful to know if the size of the aperture moulded into the wheelhouse roof was changed at any time during the long production run - perhaps Simon P or someone at the yard might be able to help with this ? I know that the dimensions of the sunhatch aperture on both Mike Lofthouse's 'Arion' and my own 'Liberty' are identical despite there being about 7 years difference in the age of the two craft - so, hopefully, the majority of Pilots out there will have a standard roof. Lastly, if Seaglaze are interested in identifying commercial products that would be of general interest to Owners Associations, might I suggest that they explore the possibility of a producing an opening starboard wheelhouse side window for Hardy Pilots that would replace the fixed panel that was the standard fitment on the older models. I think that a sliding window was introduced sometime during the mid 1990s (Simon K will probably know this) - but most of the owners that I have spoken to in and around Christchurch have Pilots with fixed windows that prevent communication between the helm and the foredeck when departing or picking up a mooring. Replacing this window is the next thing on my 'to-do' list once I have found and fitted a sun-roof! I will await future developments with great interest. Kind regards, Gerald.

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Message 11 of 21
Posted by member elander on Friday 23 January 2015

Marie, very interesting. I could be interested but I would want 'supply only'. It is clear from the forums in this club that many owners of older craft do much of their own work, and today's labour rates can make the difference between 'affordable' and 'out of the question'. Since the aperture already exists fitting should be very straightforward. Can you explore a 'supply only' option? This would overcome the dispersed geography issue and, I suspect, increase the potential take up by a significant margin. Neil (family pilot).

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Message 10 of 21
Posted by member Marie O'Connell Hardy Editor on Thursday 22 January 2015

Pilot 20 Wheel House Sun Roof continued… Replacement of canvas hatch cover to hard perspex sun roof design. Ahoy Gerald, Mike and Rich, When I visited the London Boat Show last week I had a chat with Caroline Muckleston of Seaglaze Marine Windows about a bespoke sun roof hatch replacement for a Family Pilot Wheelhouse roof. (Please see Message 8 of 9). Seaglaze have produced some fine window fittings for some of the new Hardy range, but I explained to Caroline that interest in this fitting would be mainly for the older craft, and also that cost would be a factor. I asked what she thought they might be able to do to help us. Seaglaze provide a Replacement Window Service for owners’ clubs and associations. This is a new service and the idea is to obtain as much information as possible about various types of craft’s requirements, producing templates either from original fittings or new bespoke versions and then keep it all on their data base for future use. In this way Seaglaze could look at different window configurations and then provide a standard set and price. The first step is information gathering – pictures of existing designs and measurements. If we could find boat yards in specific areas to cover the installation, Seaglaze themselves have offered to visit and discuss and do measurements. Simon Papendick of J-Star Boat Services may well be able to offer a mobile service as well – this is still in discussion. As Caroline mentioned in her email to me after the boat show: “Obviously the financial benefit from this project will come from finding multiple people who would like the same hatch arrangement so we build more than one. We will come back to you soon with the next step, but in the meantime, could you please send me some images of the hatch you mentioned that you have seen? Thank you, Caroline” Obviously this would be fine if we were all in the same area, but we are not, so we will have to compromise and get a couple of boats together in one area to enable Seaglaze to visit and see what the requirements are and then they can do their own measurements. If we can standardise this then it should be possible to produce something original specific to our needs and then keep it on file for future use. So for starters, if any members could send me any information you have – especially photographs - of existing versions of perspex/sunroof hatch replacements that you may have on your boats/Family Pilots already, I can forward this to Seaglaze and then we can see where that leads. It would be great to make this type of hatch available to more members, and also try and keep the costs down as much as is possible, but it will require some coordination. Please Email me via the Contacts page – Thanks Marie HOC Magazine Editor

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Message 9 of 21
Posted by member Marie O'Connell Hardy Editor on Tuesday 13 January 2015

I'm in the same boat (please excuse the pun) as everyone else with this one. I do like the look of your hatch cover Mike, a nice neat design. I will keep asking around and get back to you all. All the best, Marie HOC Ed.

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Message 8 of 21
Posted by member Arion on Tuesday 13 January 2015

* Further to Gerald Lewis's comment number 5. He referred to the hatch on my Pilot, Arion. The attached photo clearly shows the curvature (custom made or stock? I don't know).

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Message 7 of 21
Posted by member john ferguson on Monday 12 January 2015

I have replaced the canvas sun roof with one made from grp like the cabin hatch. I made a female mould using hardboard stiffened with softwood battens. The inside of the mould needs to be the shiny side of the hardboard and sealed with a release agent. It can then be coated with a gel coat of the desired colour , white in my case, and then built up with layers of grp mat and resin to the required thickness. The sides can then be trimmed to the required depth so that the hatch sits over the opening surround. Instead of hinges I used 4 stainless window stays ( from Screwfix ) two on either side. The hatch can not be removed without undoing 4 nuts and bolts. The stays have sufficient friction to keep the hatch closed but allow the whole hatch to be raised by approx. 2" for ventillation or raising just the front or back alone. Some firms run GRP classes and making a hatch could be an ideal project once the mould was made. Alternatively, it would be a straightforward job for any GRP fabricator or capable DIYer. If a good mould is made it can then be reused. A fabricator could be more interested if he had several orders. If you want more info or pictures then please get in touch with me. John Ferguson "PEGASUS"

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Message 6 of 21
Posted by member Richard Hunt on Tuesday 23 December 2014

I'm just looking at exactly the same thing for the Sea Scouts pilot 20. Have emailed Hardy Marine to see if the stock part will fit. Now to start googling around! Rich

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Message 5 of 21
Posted by member Gerald Lewis on Tuesday 23 December 2014

Thanks everyone for your comments to date - and particularly to Mike Lofthouse who kindly invited me over to Parkstone Bay to examine the tilting sunroof fitted to his Pilot 20 'Arion'. Unfortunately, we could find no sign of a manufacturers stamp or label on Mike's sunroof - which appeared to be a perfect low-profile fit for the moulded opening in the wheel house roof. The sunroof is manufactured from smoked perspex / acrylic mounted on an aluminium frame - with both roof and frame moulded to fit the slight curvature of the surround of the wheelhouse opening. The sunroof has two hinges at the front and, in the open position, is supported by two adjustable locking stays at the sides. If anyone knows who manufactured this type of roof - and whether it was retro-fitted or supplied as standard on the later Pilots - I would be very interested to learn more. Wishing a very Merry Christmas to all fellow Hardy enthusiasts. Gerald.

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Message 4 of 21
Posted by member Robert Sneddon on Friday 19 December 2014

Hi Gerald. On my Pilot the original hatch cover like yours was beyond repair. I decided to fit a fixed perspex cover over the hatch. I decided on a tinted sheet of perspex which was cut to size prior to delivery. Some sealer and stainless screws fixed it on. Not too thick as the hatch is not completely flat. I don't have a blind fitted but a small blind could be fitted quite easily and like Clive, a vent could also be incorporated. I didn't open the original cover very much so being fixed doesn't bother me. Kind regards, Robert.

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Message 3 of 21
Posted by member adele on Saturday 13 December 2014

Hi Gerald, You may also find this thread on the Hardy forum useful as well... http://www.hardy-owner.org.uk/forum.php?p=forum&a2=showposts&threadid=1233792731 Our own solution of a ply panel and mushroom vent still very sound after its first season - just keep it well painted and protected like any other wooden feature, and you should be fine! Its not needed for escape after-all! Unless you're an acrobat that is. Good luck, Clive

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Message 2 of 21
Posted by member Simon Kidd on Wednesday 10 December 2014

Hi Gerald. Hopefully a Pilot owner will log on and be able to help from experience. I have considered upgrading my nav, though there's a lot of work involved in adding a suitbley sized, level plinth / upstand in order to mount a hatch. Certainly a similar mod is used on Contessa 26 yachts - and the builder - Jeremey Rogers offers an upstand moulding to help - see the following site for further info: http://www.co26-around-uk.co.uk/reports/Forward-Hatch.htm Alternatively, you could fit a Perspex Panel - and maybe even use the old canvas rook to cover the Panel when needed - i.e. if too hot / during winter. Have a look at the following site - they owner may even be a memeber, but I can trace the boat name on the members list at this time. http://www.shorebase.co.uk/boating/hardy/hardy.asp I hope these are helpful. best Wishes Simon.

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Message 1 of 21
Posted by member Gerald Lewis on Wednesday 10 December 2014

Does anyone have experience of replacing the standard canvas wheel house sun roof cover on a Pilot 20 with either a marine grade lift and tilt roof or a hatch cover. The canvas cover on my Pilot has seen better days and I am contemplating fitting some form of a replacement hard cover - which might also provide me with a suitable base on which to mount a semi-flexible solar panel to trickle charge the batteries. If anyone has tackled the installation of a hard sun roof or hatch cover on a Pilot, I would be very interested to know what type of cover / hatch was used and how successful - or otherwise - the end result has been.

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