Hardy Owners Club Forum

Hardy Pilot - advice please

From Jeremy Hawkings (No. guest) 06 Aug 03

I have just joined the HOC and am negotiating to buy my first boat, a 20 foot Hardy River Pilot built in 1988. She has been fitted with a 18hp diesel Yanmar saildrive which seems to take up most of the stern.

She currently lies in a very muddy creek in Hull and is spattered with mud which presumably will come off with a good hosing down, but otherwise seems in reasonable condition. The survey will confirm that. My concern is whether the engine is powerful enough for normal use. I will keep her on the Firth of Forth and use her for cruising and the occasional overnight. Any suggestions would be welcome.

River Pilot - will you be taking the boat out to sea? I seem to recall that a River Pilot did not have a main bulkhead and was intended for River work only - so I suggest you check that out.

Brian, what is the significance of a main bulkhead please?

I am in the process of looking at Hardy Pilots and wanted to know if there is a difference between a River Pilot and Family Pilot. How can I tell the difference. I would be looking to use the boat in coastal waters. Is one safe and the other not? Any advice greatly appreciated. Thank you

I am planning to buy a Hardy Pilot/Bosun - around 3-5 years old. Can anyone tell me the difference between a Pilot SE and a Bosun.

Thanks

Richard,

Hi , I believe that the Pilot se and the Bosun share the same hull. The Pilot was made up to 1998/9 I believe and then replaced by the Bosun. The SE , has a little more wood on her than the Bosun and personally, I think is a lit bit better made then the Bosun. ( Sorry Bosun owners, personal thoughts only ) I believe that the only other difference is the inclusion of a full height locker on the Bosun, inside the cabin. I looked at both and opted in the end for a very good Pilot Se of 97 vintage, which I have been delighted with.

I also believe it was about this time that the ownership of Hardy's changed with the new company taking over the name and manufacture of boats, when Mr. Hardy retired. other than that , both are excellent boats.

Best wishes, Steve Pickthall

J'ai fait l'acquisition d'un Hardy 18 de 1992 en Mai 2002 apres l'avoir vu a la foire de Marseille dix ans plus tot.j'aimerai connaitre le poids de ce magnifique bateau.merci gege...

I bought my Hardy Pilot 2o,14 years ago, I have used it in the open Maltese waters, together with my wife and three children, we have had some wonderful weekends, sometimes, in rough seas. Its a very reliable and safe boat, I recommend it as a small but comfortable weekender. By the way, its powered by a Tohatsu 140hp.

INO BALZAN- MALTA

Jeremy, I keep a Hardy Family Pilot 20 on the Firth of Forth and it is equipped with a Honda 45. It barely makes 9knts and this can reduce if you are against the tide or currents. It will only plane (?) if the heaviest of the crew goes forward to sit on the bow rail, and even then I am unconvinced it is on the plane. I'm no expert but I think you may need a bit more grunt that your 18hp. Do semi-displacement hulls plane? And, how does one lower the bow when underway? Oh no! not that old chestnut again!!

splish, splosh Jamie

Interested in your experience Jamie - I have a 194 Seawings (19'4") on the Forth with a Honda 45 which I bought recently and I have had her up to 22 knots. I haven't tried her with the throttle fully open because in anything other than a flat calm (rare on the Forth) she starts to slam into the swell quite hard, also it is difficult to avoid seagulls/puffins/flotsam and I destroyed a prop on a piece of wood recently. Maybe the Seawings is lighter than the Pilot? She goes on the plane once you get up to 12 knots or so. It is very obvious because once on the plane the speed rises steadily to 18 or 20 knots without increasing throttle, the boat flattens out (the bow drops) and the wake changes to a double wake. It is difficult to hold a speed between 10 and 18 knots - you either have to plough along below that speed or go on the plane at 18 knots or above.

Jeremy's message was from last Summer - I wonder if he got his boat and how he does with it? An inboard 18HP does sound underpowered for the Forth.

My hardy 20 river pilot has a inboard 19hp 3 cyl diesel. 3000 rpm (Faryman fk3)with enfield drive leg. Can anyone tell me what max. speed should be with this type of engine/drive. Could I go coastal with this size engine, used on non tidal river ouse at moment.

thanks.

Hello, I am living in the Netherlands and I am looking for a Hardy fishing boat for fishing at sea,does anyone know a website where they sell this boats?

Thanks ,Fred

I have had my Hardy pilot for about a month now and find it difficult to get more than 9 knots out of her, She has an inboard volvo penta diesel 59HP engine stern drive, could any one tell me if this is about the correct speed at 3200 rpm. thanks Andy

To Andy Wilson Motor Boats Monthly did a feature recently on a Pilot 20 fitted with your engine. The engine was in good condition and gave in the region of 8 knots flat out. It looks like yours is giving the correct speed.

To Andy Wilson: We had one of the first batch of 59hp diesel Family Pilots with outdrive and we were very diappointed in the performance. We were also aware of a "wall" at about 9/10 knots where the bow came up and the stern dug in leaving a battleship type wake. If the boat was returned to day boat mode ie carrying minimum equipment but with a 8hp auxilliary and two up, we could achieve 11/13 knots but it was as noisy as hell and never did get on the plane but with one up, it came very close to it at about bidata registering 14 knots.

To be honest, these figures are artificial and represented a joyless experience because of noise, full throttle indulgence and the fact that although the boat was a Southampton boat show example and was therefore very new, the engine used frightening quantities of oil. We sold it at a great loss after 18 months. Sadly, I cannot remember the revs at which these higher speeds were achieved. To back up the other correspondents, 9 knots seems about right - we cruised at 6/7 over long distances on the west coast of Scotland where the ability to run for cover is a fairly high priority, With the Hardy Pilot, the threat of broken bones was more of an issue than drowning.

Hi everyone I'm looking to buy a Hardy as my first boat intending to use it for sea fishing and cruising with the wife. Can anyone tell me the difference between a Hardy 20 and a Hardy Pilot Thanks in anticipation

They are the Same thing. Details/fittings vary over the years though as one may expect. You may also see reference to the 'Family' Pilot. Its a 2/3 berth with extra 1/4 berth under integral sink/galley unit and blue hull(1980's to 1996).

Post 1996 may see 'SE' model (side sliding windows fitted and often white hull) and later still, 1998-ish I believe(?), a face change to the current 'Bosun'.

Additions/corrections anyone? Hope that helps

Dominic and Nicola.

Hi Glenn

I have a 1991 Hardy Family Pilot 20 SE, you can see her in the Gallery in Ballyholme Bay. She has a white hull and the quarter bunk has been removed. In the wheelhouse is a sink unit, with storage cupboard under. It also has a 2 ring burner with grill and oven underneath. Hardy used to make a Fishing 20, this I believe has a larger after deck and smaller cabin. www.boatsandoutboards.com website have a wide range of hardy's for sale have a look, this should help you identify the different models on the market at present.

Regards Ian

I believe more importantly that there was a change to the hull on Pilot SE models, the hull used on this model now been the same as the current Bosun model.

I am considering buying a Hardy 20 for use in the Solent. The wheelhouse layout with a small galley unit which is covered by a seat for the crew(passenger?) appears to be the most practical. Can anyone please advise when this was introduced, or is it specific to a particular model?

I bought a Fishing 20 with a 28hp volvo diesel/shaft driven. It was underpowered to say the least, OK running with wind/tide but against and in big seas it was hard work and in my opinion dangerously underpowered. When the engine finaly gave up the ghost, i made the decision, albeit a very costly one! to re-engine/refit. I now have a boat that is capable, under perfect conditions of 20knotts and cruises economicaly at 12-15knotts, OK it may not be the quietest boat on the sea but has a good compromise of speed,comfort,accomidation,deckspace and economy that i have yet to see matched in a boat the same size.Unfortunatly after all the time and effort the time has come for a change of vessel, the boat is advertised on findafishingboat. bluemarlin! have a look, it may be of interest

Advice please:- What size auxiliary engine is recommended for a hardy family pilot. The main engine is a Suzuki 70hp. In event of main engine failure then Auxiliary would be required to push boat fast enough to give helm steering by keeping the main engine in the water to act as a rudder. Any information on minimum size 2 or 4 stroke would be appreciated. Would wish to keep weight to a minimum.

Good one this. I would suggest the biggest horsepower you can carry, inside the weight limit that you think you can carry.

My Pilot se had a 5 hp honda 4 stroke and to be honest it was not a lot of use against a 2 or 3 knot current. Yes it was ok to hold the boat and maybe stop drifting onto danger , but as far as making passage with it then I am afraid it would have been a very long passage to go any distance.

But I would say, and I am sure I will be corrected that you ought to look at , at least a 5 hp, as a minimum.

it will be interesting to hear what a lot of the others think. Still it beats the discussion on 70 / 75 /90'hp's, for a change.

I would agree with Stephen, I wouldn't fit any less than a 5 hp especially in tidal waters. I have a 6 hp Suzuki 4 stroke fitted to my Pilot and it pushes along fine. I've tested it in the back sound (tidal) against a 2/3 knot flow and it does make headway, albeit slowly, but would get you there.

Stephen / Ian.

Thanks your comments. Have decided to go for a Tohatsu 9.8hp 2 stroke which weighs only 26Kg.

However this additional weight at the stern probably explains reluctance to get up on the plane in spite of Suzuki 70hp 4 stroke main engine and trim tabs.

When eventually on the plane at 18knots there is a tendancy for the boat to fall off to port!! The auxiliary is mounted on the port side! Would appreciate any comments on this.

Hi Trevor

Glad to hear you got sorted with the auxilary engine, it's exactly the same weight as the Suzuki 6hp/4stroke I have fitted. I can't understand why, with your configuration, you have difficuly getting her on the plane! I have a similar configuration to yourself, yet with the trim tabs deployed I'm on the plane at around 14/15 knots. (see Engine forum Suzuki 70hp prop size)As for the Pilot falling off to the port, this happened to me in late 2005 and it was scary to say the least. The vessel listed to port at 20 knots and that was with a balanced load. This was the first since trialling the vessel that I'd taken her up to that speed, never again. In the members section there is a database of vessel/engine configurations, loads of info, consider joining, well worth it.

Treve,

Have yuou checked that when the boat goes onto the plene that the subsequent bow lift is not allowing the prop of the auxiliary to go into the water , and acting like a rudder ?

Other than that can you not trim the boat level with the trim tabs.

Take a good look at the boat when at rest from the back end and see if you can see any noticeable lilt. If not then it is more than likely something dragging or not working ( Port side tab ? ) that is causing this whilst on the plane.

Steve

Iam looking for hardy 20foot sailer(but they seem rare)

Can anyone tell me can the hardy 20/pilot be coverted to sail

i.e. is there any extra balast on the 20 sailer compared with

the 20 pilot.

To convert to a sailing vessel you would either need to add bilge keels or possibly make up some lee boards, without these there would be no hope at all going to windward, even reaching the boat would crab off sideways at a rate of knots. Adding bilge keels, although not impossible would be a major task. I would suggest the lee board approach. They could also be pulled up when not needed, but would need some serious kit to lift as they would need to be pretty heavy. I think there is a thread somewhere else on the website that I wrote discussing the idea of the sail plan. I think the mast and sail would be the easy bit.

Thanks Angus was hoping there was a coversion kit available

but mabey to much to ask will keep looking for sailer

sounds like to much work

I am Editor of World of Powerboats magazine and have just purchased my ideal boat, a Hardy 18, I think Navigator. It had a 9.9 Yamaha 4 stroke as it was used on the Thames. I'm based in Poole and have fitted a new Tohatsu 18hp 4 stroke. Does anyone know what is the ideal prop size and about what maximum speed I can expect.

Hi David.

Keypart tel. 01923 221490 will tell you the correct prop size for your engine and boat. I don't think you'll get breakneck speed as the Navigators apparently get up and go with a 50 four stroke. I would think an economical but strong 7-9 knots against the tide around Poole Harbour but forget about planing. There are performance figures on the Navigator on this website.

I need a replacement rope fender for my Hardy Pilot. Can anyone recommend a source for this please?

Direct from Hardy:

http://www.hardymarine.com/

Click on the Spares tab:

Pilot 20 Coir rope fender with fitting kit £307.85

There are threads on this forum which say it is not too hard to fit!

Regards

Clive Watkins

From Vic Sims (2196) I own a Hardy 25 that is powered by a 60hp outboard. It seems to me that it is underpowered as I only get 8-9knts at full throttle. Can anyone please advise on the max engine size for this type of craft. Many thanks Vic

Well the Hardy 26 (Mariner) derived from the 25 uses a 230Hp Yanmar diesel and I think does about 20/22 Knots so 60hp would be a little slower! But think of all the fuel saving while cruising along

From Vic Sims (2196)

Thanks for your reply John. Your comments have been taken on board. With the price of fuel on the increase it might be better to stay with the 60 hp. thanks Vic

I have recently removed the wiper motor from my hardy pilot 1990, after having cut off the wiper arm which was seazed on. During the struggle the retaining nut and washer jumped ship. Could anyone tell me where I could find a replacement? It's about 16mm with a fine thread. Steve

just been lucky to purchase hardy20pilot,can anyone please tell me is their any identifying numbers to tell age of boat?on hull.ect,.

There will be an ID plate or a number embossed on the hull. Once you find the number give Hardy a ring and they will tell you the age of your boat.

Hi all i have just bought fishing 18 with no wiper arm, no one seems to know what type of replacment i need looked all round scrap yard but nothing there even close to it, does anyone have any sugestions?

I read on this forum I think that the wiper blades are 10 inch and the same as a series (old style) land rover. That could be worth a try. Another option would be to give Hardy Marine a call and quote your hull number. They are very helpful.

Cheers

Andy

bet you a pound to a penny it is a vetus 12 inch or 305 mm , check the wiper motor for signs of manufacturer.

hi. i have a hardy pilot 20.with a 60 hp 4 stroke.at around 4000 rpm . i am getting 6 7 notts. is this about right. or what would be the right.pitch for the prop be. many thanks gareth

Hi Garath......I dont think that 4000rpm is enough to get your boat on the plane hence you will only achive displacement speed ie approx 6/7 knots....... you dont say if your on the river & restricted by the speed limit if you can increase to max rpm(5500/6000) do you get on the plane & increase speed.....if not then you probably have the wrong prop......this is assuming that you have a good engine thats producing enough power(not worn out) & that you are not carrying too much weight.....what pitch do you have....as a rough guide each increase of 1 inch of prop pitch decreases rpm by 200rpm(dependent on manufacturer) & each inch of decrease prop pitch increases rpm by 200rpm.......(keep changing prop until you can achive max revs)if you read some of the forum articles you will see that its not an exact science but more trial & error......hope this helps some .....Steve

I am in the market for a Hardy Family Pilot 20SE built in 1996 our later. (It has two pilot seats in the cockpit among other mods) If anyone is interested in selling this model, or knows of one for sale, please would you let me know. I live in Lyme Regis where we have a 40 mile-wide stretch of sea to play in. Ray Ward 01297 444503

Hi Ray

That's what I have, a 98 Pilot SE. I got it in Dec 2007. I really like the set up with the pilot and co-pilot seats and the sliding cockpit side windows are an excellent feature.

You also get stanchions and guard rails which are a nice feature.

Another bonus is the mostly white hull which is very easy to keep looking smart. My old Fishing 17's blue hull faded badly every year and needed a lot of effort to keep looking good.

When I was looking, I found Boats and Outboards web site to be good for Hardy's and this is where I found mine.

Make sure you get one with a decent inventory as the various bits and pieces soon mount up. A recent canopy is also a good idea as these can be expensive to replace. Usually in the region of £800.

You will need at least a 70hp motor to get good planning performance. The boat is rated to 75hp max by Hardy, although pre 98 boats have no CE plate to tell you this.

Good luck with your search.

Cheers, Andy

Thanks Andy. I have now located a 20SE with a Vovlo TAMD 22SX diesel. It looks in good condition and is well manitained. The current owner has owned it since 2006 and the previous owner from new. I think therefore it was built before 1998. The owner will only say 'Make me an offer'I cannot get a feel for the price, could you suugest a sensible figure, please?

Hi Ray

That's a trickey one. Does it have a trailer and a decent inventory? It would be worth asking the owner about trailer maintenace. Maybe ask a leading question like has the trailer needed much work to keep it in good order?

If the bearings and brakes aren't servcied, at least once a year, especially if immersed in salt water thay can deteriorate badly.

When I bough my boat, it has been craned into the water every year. I checked the bearings before towing the boat home, but then had a brake sieze on. I had to pull the boat a few hundred miles to catch a ferry, like that. Lucky I had a Land Rover so it was ok.

Bear this in mind if you buy an outfit and need to tow it home.

Check what weight the trailer is rated to. The diesel boat is maybe £400- 500Kg approx heavier than the outboard model. Once you have gear and fuel in the boat it all adds up.

Make sure you tow vehicle is up to the weight.

If there is no trailer you will need to budget £2.5K for one. Maybe more.

My Pilot cost £15 when I bought it. It was advertised at £17.5K. I made an offer based on what kit it needed and the fact that it needed a new cover. It was in fantastic condition but still quite dear.

Diesel boats are usually a bit dearer than petrol outboard but with the current climate negotiate hard.

I tested a diesel Pilot and didn't like it. It was very nosiey and the engine box restricted the cockpit space alot. Only the largert 105hp will give planing performance. For leisure item it did not tick enough boxed for me. The 4-stroke petrol outboard is nice.

In the for sale section at the minute there is a blue hull 1990 Pilot belonging to Ian Bradshaw, that has nearly new engines, a new trailer and a cover made in Sunbrella Supreme fabric. I had my new cover made in this and it is an absolute dream. It is cream flock on the inside and navy blue on the outside. It makes the cockpit a much nicer place to be with the cover up. This would have been about £1.4K to have made like this and will last for years. Wroxham boat covers made this one and their work is of the highest quality.

This boat looks like a nice well maintained package.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Cheers, Andy

Hi Very helpfull will be joining the club soon, Im looking to buy a hardy famliy pilot 20 and need to know which version will suit my needs best so Im looking for as much information on this range of modle as possible, Ill be very greatfull if you can help with this.

thank you

Clive

Hi Clive.

Theres lots of useful info on the forum if you search through...Or call me if you need any info or advice. Im currently thinking of selling my 1994 pilot 20 you can contact me on 0797 495 2877. Steve

hello i have a hardy pilot 1989 with a yamaha 4 stroke 2003 25hp big foot its making 8 knots in sea conditions

im looking to buy a brand new bigger engine could someone advise me of a bigger engine plus a prop to mach i was thinking 60hp thanks john arbroath

Hi John........last year I fitted a new Yamaha 80 (in my oppinion the best you can get)to my 1994 family pilot.......I assume that you want a larger engine so that you can get on the plane........In which place go as large as you can up to 80hp.....check with you insurance company becaus the pilots were only recomended to have upto 75hp by the manufacturers...My insurance provider had no probs with an 80... As far as the prop goes no one will be able to give a definate answer......You need a prop that will allow the engine to achive max revs(see your engine spec)...If you cannot achive max revs then reduce the pitch of the prop till you can...see other engine articals on these pages.....As a guide my Yam 80 was fitted with a 17in pitch......I could not reach 6000rpm so i changeg to a 15in still only reached 5800 rpm so could have gone down to a 13in....but decided that the 15 would suite.....You can call me on 0797 495 2877 to discuss if needed...Steve

hi folks sold my hardy msailer, and got a draco 25tc but the engine was naffed so ended up buyin another hardy a hardy 20se yup engine naffed on that too honda 75, so went for a yamaha 100, power is lovely up in a second put dolephins on it and trims tabs sits fine at 14knts on the plane between balancing it with both the engine hood goes into the well no bother new canopy for the cockpit and a yamaha 8hp four as aux sorted till my next boat,top speed so far in the firth of forth was 27.1 knts

my friend george who has the pilot 20 with the stubby keeled hull has a yamaha 60 on the back of his, he just never did get it on the plane had a shot myself and it just hung there and was lacking that extra wee bit to take it there , so we put on the trim tabs that l put on my hardy se an he also got the auto trim tabs l fitted them for him just before the summer .

his top speed before the bennets sport trim tabs were fitted was 8 to 10 knts to my surprise when we were going to dunbar gala day and l was cruising along at 20 knots and looked out the side window was george along side me with a big grin on his face so l think trim tabs people and you will see a big difference to your boats.....the hardys are stern heavy and need all the help you can to balance them out , even before george fitted the tabs with me bouncing up and down on the bow and full throttle we couldnt get that last wee bit to get it there ..... tabs is the way to go

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I am interested in buying a Hardy Pilot 20 (from owing a sailing yacht). I sail on the Broads - can anyone tell me the air draught of a 20ft Hardy? Many thanks.

Hi Bill.

The original hardy Brochure for the Pilot 20 (Thats the brochure from 1981) gives the air draught as 5' 10". Some boats of course have lighting masts etc added to the wheelhouse. The core mould design didn't change through the Family Pilot's life to my knowledge, so you should be ok with any age boat.

Best Regards

Simon.

www.southernmarinesurveys.co.uk

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